Irene Sendler; 98, Member of Reisistance

[Jael]

one other thought on this:  whatever sendler's short comings, she did incredable things.  and there is no one who goes incredible things without having some failings. 

sometimes, just to have done something that has amazing, positive implications - even if you only saved people according to your morality, or did the best according to your own framework - really: what else can we do?  this is still incredible, good, wonderful, uplifting.

Sorry.  I just want to mention this because it is possible to pick apart anything that is ever done to help anyone - the implications of your actions can never be known.  Sometimes it's uplifting just to bask in/celebrate the heroism of one person. 

[Winter Jaye]

one other thought on this:  whatever sendler's short comings, she did incredable things.  and there is no one who goes incredible things without having some failings.

I think my problem with the media is that they're not emphasizing her failings -- they're portraying the "follow parental and pastoral aphorisms" as an unquestionably good thing. 

But to be fair, who talks about someone's failings in an obituary? 

sometimes, just to have done something that has amazing, positive implications - even if you only saved people according to your morality, or did the best according to your own framework - really: what else can we do?

Question authority.

Sorry.  I just want to mention this because it is possible to pick apart anything that is ever done to help anyone - the implications of your actions can never be known.  Sometimes it's uplifting just to bask in/celebrate the heroism of one person. 

I can understand that.

I hear you.  I cannot understand why funides are so enamoured of the God of the OT - that's where you find angry god! angry god!  In the NT on the other hand is where you find Happy God (to badly paraphrase the Simpson's).

If you consider the bible as a historical document, think of NT/early Christianity/Jesus as a response against the excesses of OT morality.  I think the depiction of God as love is a direct response to the previous existence of vengeful god.

I think it's really important to remember that Judaism doesn't see the OT God this way. I think Christians do because they left a lot of key Jewish teachings out of the OT.

Christian agape = Buddhist compassion = can any one expand this list?  I'm OK with Ortho. Jewish behavioural traditions, I am not so good on the mystic side of Judaism, and am pretty shaky all round on Islam and Hinduism. 

I'm not really sure they are the same. Even though my father's family's Jewish, my mom's family was Catholic, and my Dad converted to Quakerism to dodge the draft. As a result, I went to Quaker elementary schools and a Catholic university for law school. As far as I can tell, the three religions don't always mean the same thing by "agape" or "transcendence."

Judiasm...Well, let's just say most American Reform Jews don't know who Levinas is, and they view Hannah Arendt as a female version of Noam Chomsky. To be fair, there is some truth to that: both are skeptical of Zionism for theological reasons, and both disapprove of Israel's treatment of Palestinians. Ultimately, I think Judaism's focus on morality as religion instead of transcendence is why those of us who have reservations about Zionism and Israel are so demonized. If you define Zionism as an essential aspect of Judaism, then you can use individuals' skepticism of Zionism and unwillingness to follow rabbinical authorities on the subject to Other them, which expels them from the community and allows you to attack them as anti-semitic. The most chilling example is Alan Dershowitz's successful efforts to prevent a Jewish professor who voiced questions about Zionism and Israel's human rights record from getting tenure, despite having solid scholarship. (Scholarship that, in my opinion, is exponentially stronger than Dershowitz's.) xttp://www.democracynow.org/2007/4/17/noam_chomsky_accuses_alan_dershowitz_of

According to my uncle, a Catholic of Mexican descent who converted from to Judaism to marry my Aunt, Judaism teaches morality the same way Catholicism does. When I began studying at Georgetown, I realized he was right: Catholics also teach morality primarily through Biblical stories. Further, there seems to a difference between the fraternal love described by Levinas and Catholics and Reform Jews. Levinas's transcendence is an empathy with those outside the community as equals. Like Jews, Catholic teachings frame the notion within the concept of a familial hierarchy. At the end of the day, framing it within an idea of familial hierarchy reinforces moral behavior through obedience to authority. It also implies that only those within the community are to be treated morally. Those outside the community, like Zionism skeptics or feminists seeking reproductive justice...well, the fraternal love just doesn't apply to us.

But Quakers are completely different. Quakers don't even bother teaching children who Jesus is; rather, the religion classes focus on cockroaches and teaching students how to resolve a dispute by placing themselves in the roach's shoes. After all, if kids can learn to empathize with something "that icky" and then use that empathy to find a win-win situation, then is there any person they won't be able to empathize with? And if you teach kids these lessons through interactive role playing, rather than just telling them stories, they wind up acting differently outside the classroom. It sounds silly, but I'm pretty sure it's why the only people I know who loved both middle school and high school were people who went to Quaker schools with this approach. It's also why we have some rather odd ideas, like my belief that we can resolve the Israeli/Palestinian conflict through neo-traditional urban design. (That said, because non-programmed Quakerism is radically egalitarian, practices vary from school to school. I'm told Sidwell Friends doesn't have religion classes; they only have a half-hour Meeting for Worship once a week.)

[Jael]

i just typed a mammoth response, and the internet ate it.

Can't do it justice retyping now: I'll come back to this.  (And if I haven't, WJ, please respond and bump it back up on unanswered messages.  I'd only have neglected to do so becuase I've forgotten)

[Winter Jaye]

i just typed a mammoth response, and the internet ate it.

*shudder* I really, really hate it when that happens. You have my sympathies.

Can't do it justice retyping now: I'll come back to this.  (And if I haven't, WJ, please respond and bump it back up on unanswered messages.  I'd only have neglected to do so becuase I've forgotten)

I'm not sure how much I'll be around this weekend, but I'll do my best to remember.

EDIT: I just got a rather disconcerting email from my best friend, so it looks like I may be out of town until Monday.

[Winter Jaye]

Bumpity.

[Shabnam]

Judiasm...Well, let's just say most American Reform Jews don't know who Levinas is, and they view Hannah Arendt as a female version of Noam Chomsky. To be fair, there is some truth to that: both are skeptical of Zionism for theological reasons, and both disapprove of Israel's treatment of Palestinians.

Do they really? As opposed to regarding Noam Chomsky as a male version of Hannah Arendt? Even though Hannah was much older than Noam?

[Winter Jaye]

Judiasm...Well, let's just say most American Reform Jews don't know who Levinas is, and they view Hannah Arendt as a female version of Noam Chomsky. To be fair, there is some truth to that: both are skeptical of Zionism for theological reasons, and both disapprove of Israel's treatment of Palestinians.

Do they really?

In my experience, I've been the only one in any given setting who knows who Levinas is -- and I'm only familiar with him because I speak French and minored in Philosophy.  (To be fair, he doesn't translate very well, so if you don't speak French chances are whatever you read won't make any sense. Besides, you're probably not going to be exposed to him at all if you're educated in American educational system, which avoids Continental Philosophy as though it has an active case of infectious XDR-TB.)

As opposed to regarding Noam Chomsky as a male version of Hannah Arendt? Even though Hannah was much older than Noam?

Absolutely. Arendt was definitely older and smarter than Chomsky, but Chomsky looms much larger on the Reform Judaism radar of Bad Jews. It's not about gender or age so much as it is that he's "one of us":  he grew up two streets over from my father, attended the same synogogue as my grandparents, his father (and mother? -- I'm not too clear on the details) were responsible for the preschool daycare program that made my aunt fluent in four languages before her fifth birthday, went to my Dad's high school, he graduated from my uncle's (and my) alma mater...and the list kinda just goes on and on.

Personally, I think Arendt's far more brilliant -- but at the end of the day, I don't know anyone who even knew her, let alone went to high school and college with her. Hence, lower on the radar screen.

But even Jews in D.C. and NYC seem to have this perception, and I suspect it's ultimately because we're the intended audience for most of his political writings. Unlike Chomsky, Arendt's primary audiences were philosophers and other members of the intellegentsia. (I'm pretty sure the firestorm over Eichmann in Jersualem was more about her tone than her actual arguments.)